I went to tell them to stop rough housing because it sounded like they were getting a little out of control with their playing. I had no idea she was hurting him. That is until I opened the door and saw her bending back his fingers with her face up in his.
She jumped up immediately and started crying that he was hurting her. The boy just sat there holding his hand, he had tears running down his face. I caught her. She was busted. So she started screaming at me. I told her she better watch who she is screaming at. Then I realized I need to stop and think for a second. I tried to talk to her. Sometimes, I can talk her down before she loses it. But this time, she was busted so she was going to pull out all the stops.
I said " I am not going talk to you right now, good night." and I shut the door. Of course about 10 minutes into it, I realized I had left the boy in there with her. Oops.
She was too busy slamming herself against the wall and trying to punch a hole in the walls to do anything to him. I called him out and that's when I saw it.
She had used her nails and did this to him through his sock.
I wish I could get better pictures. His neck has her finger and hand marks on it. There are tiny red blotches almost rashlike. She was choking him.
If the marks come out stronger tomorrow, I am going to take more pictures. I just couldn't get the new camera to capture it.She was beyond pissed that we could see what she had done to him so she was screeching and screaming "don't hurt me!", "Somebody please help me, please!", "Ow! you're hurting me!" , etc... and she was in the room all by herself. Sometimes, I try to stand by a window when she is doing that so people can see me because truly we never know when someone will believe them, right?
I decided to videotape from the bathroom which is on the other side of the wall. I didn't want to record her directly, but I need to know. I don't feel like any therapist or anyone else I've talked to gets the magnitude of what I am trying to tell them. This was after an hour, the very worst had past for the time being until she worked up some more steam. I wanted to ask all of you if this is what your kids meltdowns are like, is this what you mean when you say they are raging?
She went on and on but I stopped recording and simply went in and told her to sit in the middle of the room so she would be away from all walls. She had already kicked me a few times when I was trying to get her away from the walls earlier, so if someone was wondering why I was letting her do that, well, I can't get hurt.
They have already physically hurt me and hurt or not I still have to get my husband in his wheelchair everyday. I don't have any health insurance or anything if one of them were to hurt me badly and I can't leave any of them as I have no help whatsoever. But even if that weren't an issue, I don't think there is anything I could do to help her when she is like this other than to let her get it out.
I just need to know, is this what you guys are dealing with or is this when I start forcing people to give her residential treatment?
11 comments:
This is VERY familiar. J has taken the moulding off her door with her bare hands with over 100 plus nails in it (a week after her 6th birthday). Broken heavy duty door knobs, holes in the walls,etc. I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse. J has not been to RTC but she has been taken to the hospital for an eval the first time she tried to kill me with culinary scissors.
Ahh yes. Raging. When the kid is out of control and screaming and does not stop for a VERRRRRYYYYY long time. IMO, a rage has to last a long time to be considered a rage. It also has to be devoid of reason. If it lasts less than a half hour and there is some sort of reason that is logical to a typical kid (like not getting what they want when they want it), then I call those tantrums. My six year old son has those frequently and has even hurt me during those but I wouldn't say he is raging because he knows what he is doing and why he is doing it.
Tara, on the other hand, has been to known to scream for HOURS because she doesn't want to make a choice between kool-aid or chocolate milk or because she got caught hurting herself or because we told her stop masturbating in public and then she attacks and screams and it continues and seems like it will never stop.
Also, another difference I have found, at least with Tara and the boys, is the boys will cry real tears when they are having a little temper tantrum, and they will get tired from it. Tara, on the other hand, doesn't shed a tear (though SOUNDS like she is crying) and it seems to energize her. Tara also gets the superhuman strength. She has made both my husband and I bleed, ripped things out of the walls, etc. Yet she is not normally destructive. (my son, however breaks everything but that is not related to any rage, he is simply fond of breaking things, his hobby :)
All of my kids will hurt each other if I turn my head the other direction. They are getting better and it is less and less but I still don't trust them with each other...your kids can get better too now that you are aware of what they are doing and have called them on it.
The biggest piece of advice I have is do not show fear. Or cry (in front of them). Things seemed to get better with Tara when I told her that she was just a little kid and I was not afraid of her.
holy crap, I just wrote a book...sorry about that. I can really blabber sometimes.
Lisa- it actually helps because then I know this is "normal" and not something that I am making light of,so to speak.
I've only had one person, the kid's psychiatrist, who has ever affirmed anything I've said about the kids behaviors and she basically nodded her head. Which I am not saying is bad because the kids were in the room when I was telling her what they do. I wouldn't have wanted her to go down a list of possible behaviors in front of them (like the psychologist did--repeatedly). They don't need any more ideas. lol
Torina- Don't worry about the length of the comment. Really, I mean it. I write books all the time as comments and wonder what the other person thinks.lol But truly I don't mind. There is a lot of information there and a lot I recognize from what you have written.
CDQ does the same thing as Tara and there are no real tears either. CDQ is the only one who hurts them and it's for no reason that the others have done. I think that's how she controls them.
And everything Torina said. Yup!
You got it. Instead of road rage it's rad rage. It ain't pretty.
Sometimes I can tickle her out it or do some things out of Brita St. Clair's book 99 Ways to Drive Your Kid Sane. Sometimes nothing works.
Hang in there Sasha!
Yep. Yes. Raging. It is exactly what we went through with Cor.
It definitely sounds like raging to me as well. But I hear a little bit of flashback in it like Dustin. He tends to flashback to abuse and puts anyone's face in the flashback who happens to be near him at the time.
Have you ever been trained on how to restrain without hurting them or you? You should be. It can be dangerous for both of you if you do it wrong. Videotaping restraints is normal around our house as well. I am gritting my teeth typing this hoping I don;t ruin our no-restraint in weeks streak by saying it.
Soooo glad we are out there is such strong force! It can be so frustrating and exhausting to deal with the rages! I have to be honest I do take them to the ER sometimes for psych evals even when I am sure they won't be admitted. The theory I have behind that is ....for good or bad....it wastes their time. They are wasting my time with the raging...Might as well let them sit there for hours and hours. Plus it give you a chance to sit and read while they are on their best behavior.....After one or two trips....they decide to figure things out for awhile.
I also swaddle my 11 yo who weighs 95 lbs. I lay a sheet on the floor and take her by the hand. I firmly (not harmfully or hurtfully) help her lay down and I swaddle her. She can then safefully continue to "rage" without harming anyone or anything. I can still do it with my 15 yo but I find she doesn't need it.
I don't know if I am any help at all but...I find these things helpful....
Sheri- The last therapist taught me how to do "the hold". I did it with this child several times.
But when I let that therapist go, she actually used the hold against me.
I had a problem with her wanting me to force affection on the kids. They have all been molested. I have been molested myself. I have huge issues with affection, specifically forced affection.
I asked my kids directly if they wanted me to hug them and kiss on them because of the reactions they were having. When it comes to this I can FEEL what they are feeling. I can recognize the fear and everything else that is in their eyes.
I didn't want to mess them up further the way I was. I asked them if they wanted hugs and kisses. At first they said no, so I clarified, if they wanted hugs and kisses from us like the therapist was making us do or when they were ready. Even the boy said when he was ready and I took that and respected it (and by the way, they come and get it when they want it or need it and they are now more receptive to it).
What this has to do with the hold is that the therapist said she couldn't wrap her head around a mother not being able to give her children affection. Cause you know respecting your child equates to that naturally.
She said what about the hold? I asked her what about it. She told me "You have no problem discipling your children but you can't give them affection?" (something to that affect anyway) I told her that I didn't realize the hold was disciplining the child. She said "well, what did you think it was?" I told her I thought it was supposed to be used so they wouldn't hurt themselves.
I've never thought of the hold as discipline. That's not the way she originally explained it to me. Is that the way you guys were told?
At any rate, I haven't used it since. It really didn't do much good anyway. I'm five feet tall and I was always afraid she was going to throw her head back and knock my teeth out or something. lol
Queen Mommy- Anything you want to share I am totally open to. :-)
Sasha we don't use the hold as discipline either, simply to keep them and the other kids safe from the rage.
Dustin is tall and spindly, but terribly strong while raging. I position myself against the couch or a wall and if done right, I can avoid a head butt. Once I realized how I was really supposed to lock my legs on his I can stop him from pushing me.
I must say to get the right hold position it does sometimes require a short bit of help initialy so it would be difficult alone, but I have done it alone (he typically won't rage the BIG rage with hubby home) it just takes longer to get in control.
And by the way, that therapist deserved to be fired! Respecting your kids means knowing what they've been through and knowing that touches needed to be wanted by them in order to be effective. You are one smart cookie!
Sasha, I never used a hold as discipline. Also, I could never find anyone to train me in doing a proper one so I just sort of winged it. I have only done them a few times years ago when Tara was a lot smaller and they were simply so she would stop attacking us and calm down. I would wrap myself around her and kind of lock all the flailing limbs up and just rock her until she calmed down. If she wasn't attacking me physically, I didn't bother with it, and even then I would sometimes just go in another room and lock the door. She has molestation issues, too but is overly affectionate (to the point where she will inappropriately touch anyone) so we have to maintain strict boundaries when it comes to touch. You are wise for recognizing that with your own kids.
Also, Tara doesn't rage anymore. Don't ask me what the cure was cause I have NO idea. She still screams at me and throws a hissy but she has control over herself so I wouldn't call them rages anymore, more like hissy fits.
With Toby, in the few times that he has totally gone off on me, I just let him wear himself out.
Also, once my kids are finished having their little episodes I always tell them I'm sorry they are having a tough time and I love them (even when I don't feel like telling them so LOL). Then I give them a hug or a pat on the back.
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